The Insider’s Guide: surviving family violence
9 / 5 / 25
58 min
And if at any time you want support, you can go to areyouok.org.nz or call the 24/7 Are You OK Helpline on 0800 456 450. Those details and other contacts are also in the show notes for this episode.
Experiencing family violence or partner violence can leave us feeling isolated and alone. It can mess with our minds and even make us feel crazy. We often blame ourselves for what's happening, and it can make us feel like there's nowhere to turn. Throughout this series, you'll hear first hand stories of people who have experienced family violence. And the reason these courageous people are sharing their stories is because they want people who are experiencing family violence to know that they are not alone, that they are not crazy, that it's not their fault, and that helpful support is available.
In this episode, I talk with Anum. Anum is a Pakistani New Zealander and lives in Te-Whanganui-a-Tara/Wellington. Anum endured years of physical and emotional violence at the hands of her ex-husband. But let's start at the beginning of her story, where Anum is 21 years old. She's living in Pakistan with her parents, who are looking for a husband for her. Then one day, a mutual friend introduces him to a young man.
Anum: Once they thought that it was okay and they- we should proceed with it, me and my ex-husband met a couple of times and everyone agreed. Yes, it's all good. Let's get married. And like those six, seven months before I came to New Zealand, I was still at my parents’ place, and there were things like small things happening, things he was saying to me, which didn't sound right. So he would not like me to meet my cousins or attend their weddings and things like that, which was very weird. And, he raised a stink about that. Belittled me as much as he can. Told me that if he has said no, I couldn't attend it, which did not sit right.
I think there were all these red flags at that time, but for me it was pretty much a carnival. So yeah, that is fine fun. It's fine. We just had a fight, we moved on and all that kind of stuff.
Mick (VO): Despite noticing some controlling behaviour, Anum was caught up in the adventure of her new marriage, an adventure that took them all the way from Pakistan to New Zealand.
Anum: Now, when I came to New Zealand, I used to cover my head and he said to me, look, I don't like you covering your head. I was like, okay, fine, I won't cover my head. I took my scarf off and I tried to dress as modern as I could, but he was never happy. Like no matter how I dressed, he would tell me, oh look, you are looking ugly. It's not looking nice. It is not meant for you. Now I see the whole picture. I could see that he was picking on my confidence at that stage, starting to break me slowly.
Mick (VO): During their first months in New Zealand, Anum's husband started becoming more and more controlling.
Anum: I started to justify to myself that, look Anum, he's doing his PhD. He is really busy, stressed out and all that kind of stuff. It's okay. He'll be fine once he's through it. Then one day he goes to, university and comes back and he says to me, I went to my GP and I've got an STI. So, they have asked me to get you tested as well. Now, the country I come from, you are not educated on things like STIs.
I said, okay, fine. Like whatever it is, I'll go to the GP. I went to the GP, she tested me and I was positive, and she needed to explain to me what an STI is. And so she explained to me everything. Now, once she has explained to me, the highlight of that whole discussion for me is that either I have got another partner, or either he has got another partner and one of us has brought that into this relationship.
So when we reached back home, he started yelling and shouting at me, telling me that I am the one who has brought that into it. And unfortunately- now I said unfortunately- that was the same day I found out I was pregnant and his words were that “I don't know whose baby is it”. So I am like crying and trying to reason with him.
And like, obviously I was not ready to accept that he has had an extramarital affair. So I justified to myself, oh my God, Anum, this must be something else. Like doctor must have got it wrong. There must be some hygiene issues with you which you can get an STI or something like that. And that's how I'm justifying it to myself.
So fast forward another few months. Look, I got through my pregnancy. It was not a smooth breeze. We were going through ups and downs, but during that time he never hit me. All he was doing was belittling me, telling me how awful I was, how I was ugly, I was not worth him, he just married me because his parents wanted.
He told me the story of a girlfriend he had in Pakistan, and he was really keen to marry her, but his parents didn't agree. So that's why he married me.
Mick (VO): In April of 2011, Anum gives birth to their first child, a baby boy, and their life as a family begins.
Anum: One day he comes back from work and he is expecting a meal and I'm like, look, I'm really exhausted with the baby, so I'm cooking it. It will take a few minutes, an hour or so. And he was like, so what have you been doing since morning? And I said, look, I did this, this, this. I gave him the whole schedule of my day. And there was a couple of hours where I said, my mum called, I talked to her, and that did not end well with me. That was the first slap I got. That was the first slap.
Now I think about it. I think that should have been the time I should have walked out of that house. I was trying to justify it, but there was no justification for it. Like, what did I do to deserve that? Well I cried my heart out, and as I mentioned before, there were phases of love bombing and all that kind of stuff.
So he had this perfect cycle so he would do whatever he wants, beat me, hit me, slap me, belittle me, whatever. And then within minutes he would get back to normal and he would expect me to get normal. So that is difficult for me. Like if I have been beaten or if I have been belittled so badly, I just can't get back to normal within seconds.
But he expects me to do that and once we have crossed that stage and I am a little bit normal, let's say I'm talking to him, he'll take me to bed and the cycle starts again.
Mick (VO): Anum’s husband finally finishes his PhD and gets a job in Dunedin.
Anum: So here we go to Dunedin and things started getting a little worse over there because that was the stage when he started isolating me.
And in this whole situation, his mum passed away and things really started deteriorating, like I could see the difference in his behaviour. Like before his mum died, he was a bit careful in what- to what extent he would go cause he wouldn't- he knew that I would talk to his mum every weekend and she will always ask me, are you okay? Is he treating you fine? And all that. Now things started getting bad. Bad to a point that he would hit me regularly. Like I would say like 2 or 3 times a month. At that stage.
There was this incident. So if you know how Muslim marriage law works, so you know how you say that man has got the right to divorce. So if you divorce a woman, you have to say that I divorce you verbally three times at two different times. After one divorce, after once he has said that, he can come back and talk to me and we can reconcile if we want to. After second one, again that can happen. But once it has been done for three times, there is no reconciliation. So that's how the law works.
Now we had an argument again. It was why my mum called and why did I talk to her? And I'll be honest, I was a bit rude. And I said, look, she's my mum. What do you want? What- what do you have against her or something like that? And he couldn't take it that I was answering back.
So that was the first time I got beat really bad, like really, really bad. And after hitting me as much as he want…So it's Dunedin and it's a cold winter night, and it was snowing slightly and he pushed me out of the door. I don't have any shoes on my feet, no socks on my feet. I don't have any warm clothes on me. I was literally in my nightdress. And I sat outside on those stairs. It was middle of the night. I didn't know what the hell I I'm supposed to do at this time. So this was like three years since I'm in New Zealand, and by that time, what he has been doing with me has taken that kind of hold on me that I'm starting to feel like, oh, I'm not worth a lot of things. I can't work, I can't get a job in New Zealand. Like, I didn't have a bank account. He asked me to delete all my social media accounts.
I was completely in isolation from my friends and family back in Pakistan. So like, my mum would literally used to book a call and call me, but still he had problems. So after a couple of hours, obviously my baby's crying his head off and he never had any practice with looking after the baby [laughs], so he did let me in.
Now, during that whole fight we had before that, he said to me once that I am divorcing you. So for me that was a huge thing. I felt like my whole world crumbled in that second and I am thinking if he has divorced me once I am going back, that's it. I don't want to live with this man and I- while sitting outside on those stairs, I made up my mind that I am not taking his baby. He's going to look after him and I'm going to go back to my mum and dad, and he can do whatever he wants.
Mind you, I'm just 22 years old at that stage, 22, 23 years. So I- he lets me back in, gives me the baby. I calm the baby down and then he starts, look, I am so sorry. And he starts apologising and begging me and whatnot. And I think that was the time of my life when I said, look, I really don't want to talk to you. I need some time to think about it. And I did not sleep with him that night. I slept in the other room with my baby, and I'm thinking about these things.
And for that week, like, I am really not talking to him like I'm- but I'm still cooking him meals and still doing his laundry and everything. And I had a GP appointment and over there I found out that I was pregnant again. Now the whole thinking that I had done that, I'm going to leave the baby with him and I'm going to go back home, went down the drain and I said, okay, what I'm going to do is I'm going to give him one more chance. He's begging for another chance, so maybe he'll change.
So that was my second biggest, biggest mistake, I think, in my marriage, that I give him another chance, I shouldn't have. Initial few days went well, like he was not hitting me for a while, but he was belittling me, doing all sorts of stuff. Now fast forward another few months.
I am six months pregnant and he decides that ‘I want to bring my dad over for a few months because he's quite lonely after my mum has gone’ and I said why not?
Mick: his- bring his dad over?
Anum: His dad. So and I am, I'm thinking that this would be really good with another person in the house. He will be really mindful of what he says and what he does and oh my God, that that was the point of my life where I realised that there is no hope for this man, cause he would literally beat me in front of his dad.
And all his dad would say is, don't beat her in front of me, because people are going to say, I was there and you were beating her. When I go, do whatever you like. I think I can never get over those words.
There's one incident that I really remember from that time, so I was expected to be this again, the dutiful wife and daughter-in-law who gets up early in the morning, preps breakfast and all that. And I was doing as much as I could. The extent of my situation that pregnancy was that I was literally on crutches. I was told not to walk because it was not good for me or the baby anymore.
I was told to take full bedrest, but I was looking after a toddler. I was looking after the full household. I was trying to make him and his dad as comfortable as they could be. There was one- this one day and I was I was not very well and I think it was eight months of my pregnancy and I spotted all night and like he was in a bad mood, so I didn't say anything to him. In the morning I got up and I was not in a state to get up and prepare breakfast. So I just lied in my bed and there is this hell raised in the lounge where he and his father are sitting, and they are saying all these profanities and cursing me and swearing at me because I did not wake up to make their breakfast.
And I texted my midwife and I said to her, look, I've been spotting all night. I don't know how the baby is and what do you want me to do? And she called right away because she knew how complex things were at that stage for me. And she said, why don't you come to the hospital right now?
And I said to her, I'll check if I can come. So obviously she can't understand the language or thing, but she is hearing there are things going in the background. You can understand the tone and all that kind of stuff. So she hung up on me and she called my ex-husband and she said to her, I want you to bring her to the hospital right now.
Do you even know what condition your wife is in? Now, the thing with my ex-husband is that he's very politically correct, so he wants to build this perfect picture in front of the outside world that he's the perfect husband, perfect dad. And so when my midwife called, he was like, oh my God, yes, yes I'm bringing her right now and all that kind of stuff.
And he comes to me and he said, oh, why didn't you say that to me, and all that kind of stuff? And I get, get dressed up, I get my baby dressed up. Then we go to the hospital. So we reached hospital and my midwife was on the road with a wheelchair. The moment he stopped the car, she got me out on the wheelchair and she told her, you go and park the car, you bring the baby with you when you come in. I'm going to take her now.
I still remember the moment I lied down on that bed. I just broke out tears. I really, really didn't know how to control myself. And obviously she was looking at me throughout my pregnancy. She figured out there was something wrong, and she asked me that question again and again. Are you okay? Is he treating you okay?
But by that time, I was so much brainwashed, all I said to her was nah I'm fine. I'm just worried about the baby and all. So fast forward that day, I was in observation, went back home. So something else happened and he hit me really bad. And that was my first time of attempting suicide. Now when he saw me that I did that, he got worried that, oh my God, if something happened to the baby, this will all come out.
So he is asking me, let me take you to the hospital and then, what are you going to go and tell them? Why did you do that? And I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. I am just staying home. If I'm going to die, I'm going to die today. And if I'm not going to die, I'm going to live.
So we didn't go to the hospital. I drank lots and lots of water just to dilute what I had put inside me. Another month passed and it was time for his dad to go back. Now, it is very interesting that his dad was perfectly fine to travel to New Zealand by himself, but when he has to go back, like he can't travel by himself now, he wants his son to accompany him on his way back.
I'm nine months pregnant with a toddler. I can't drive. [laughing]
And he bought himself a ticket and he went with him to Pakistan [laughs]. I think it was 10 or 15 days trip, and my midwife called me because I had an appointment and she asked me, so are you coming to see me tomorrow? And I'm like, yeah, I'll be there and this and that. But I might be a slight, slightly late because, I'll be taking the bus.
And she was like, why are you taking the bus? And I told her, well, my husband has gone to Pakistan. Oh, she was angry, angry, I've never seen her that angry. So she, she, she was really upset. And then she said to me, look, I'll come to see you. I do not want you getting out of the house by yourself, cos you're not in the state where you can walk with a toddler all by yourself.
So now he comes back all happy and like he had his trip of a lifetime without me and all that kind of stuff. And I was, I think due next week, and I slipped and I fell down. I ruptured my placenta. So he called my midwife and he said, look, she fell down. But there was no bleeding or anything.
But, so what do we do? And she said, why are you even calling me? You need to bring her to the hospital right away. So we went to the hospital. It was evening, I think 8 or 9 in the evening. And what they said to him was he needs to take the baby home and come in the morning to pick me up.
Now he's not happy about it because he has to look after the baby. Oh my God. Like he literally sweared and cursed me in that ward, telling me that I was just making it all up so I can stay away from him. Well, he went home after obviously cursing at me. Another hour passed and the ObGyn came out.
The only thing she said to me, your placenta has been ruptured and you are bleeding internally. I need you in the theatre now. So within minutes, like the whole room was filled with doctors and nurses and midwives and they were changing me and rushing me to the theatre, they made me call him and let him know that they're rushing me to the theatre.
So my house was literally five minutes’ drive away from that hospital, and we got to the theatre. I delivered the baby. I came out of the theatre when he reached.
Mick: He only just got there?
Anum: Yup.
Mick (VO): Anum's baby girl was perfectly healthy and they returned home together. Now, for a bit of background, before they came to New Zealand, Anum was studying economics.
However, her husband told her to stop her studies over there and she could continue them when they arrived in New Zealand. But when they got here, he didn't allow her to do this for years. That was, until she had a newborn baby and a toddler. That's when he told her to start studying again, and as part of her studies, she got an internship role at Otago Museum. But starting a job began to threaten the absolute control her ex-husband had over their finances.
Anum: Till the point he went to Pakistan while I was nine months pregnant, I had nothing, not a penny to myself. I was not given any pocket money. I was not given any money to spend. He was always with me when we were buying something, so he was the one paying. I was not supposed to have any financial control of my life. I didn't have a bank account.
I got a copy of his credit card for the first time when he went to Pakistan, because obviously I was by myself with a kid and I remember there was this huge ruckus in my house where his dad was telling him that you should not give her the credit card when you are going, just give her calculated amount of money that she could keep, which you get back when you come back, because who knows what she does with that money.
I mean, like, where am I going to take this money? [laughs] I still can't understand that. So fast forward now, we are back to semester two and I am doing an internship at Otago Museum. I think it was 2 or 3 days a week and still managing to cook and clean and have a meal prepped before he was home and all that kind of things and, I was at the point of where Otago Museum was looking at maybe offering me a job like they were asking me, so what are your plans next- like, you know, how the conversations go. And I thought I was settling in, I was making a place for myself. I might have a few dollars for myself as well. And out of nowhere, he decides that it's better that we move to UAE. I'm like, okay, so he applied to-
Mick: to where, sorry?
Anum: UAE, United Arab Emirates. He applies for job, he gets a really good job over there.
Mick: Do you think he was partly doing it because you were starting to build a life yourself and get a job and things like that?
Anum: I think so, like there was no reason, no explanation.
Mick (VO): as part of preparing to move to UAE, Anum called their doctor and requested the family's medical records.
Anum: There were hundreds and hundreds of pages. So every minute detail is recorded in that. So something happened and he said to me again, I don't know whose child that is. And it really hit me bad at that time. He was referring back to the STI that, we had.
Mick: Oh, right.
Mick (VO): With far too many pages to take overseas Anum starts going through the medical records to see which ones are important.
Anum: And now I'm going through his records. And I come through this very interesting conversation that he had with his GP when he was when it was found that he had an STI. So, they had asked him this question if he had multiple partners and he said yes. I honestly did not know how to react to that.
Now I'm looking at that paper which says that, yes, he has confessed that he has got multiple partners. He came back home and he could see in my behaviour that I was not talking to him. And after quite some time I said to him, look, I was going through those papers and this is what I came across, and you have said that you had multiple partners. So by that time, he was so used to gaslighting me that he started gaslighting me. And he said to me, no, no, no, you have read it wrong. It's not what it said. They are talking about other things and all. And I said, look, do not tell that to me because I have called Healthline and I have read the sentence to the nurse online. And I said, look, I've got- these are my papers, that I've got from DHB and I'm reading this. Can you explain what does this mean?
He would not admit it for quite some time. And then he admitted it and he tried to just brush it under the rug and I was like, no, I'm not letting it go. You knew that it was you, and you have put me through hell for the four years, saying that you don't know whose child that is.
You have used that sentence with me so many times that it has just chipped on me. So he tried to brush it under the rug and tried to laugh it off, and I was just not giving up. And then he did best what he does best. He started yelling at me and shouting at me. And how dare I looked at his records and how awful I was, and how I want to ruin this marriage and all that kind of stuff.
And I cried myself to sleep again. But I think by that stage I was so much brainwashed that things didn't matter to me. Like no matter if he hit me or he would say all that kind of things, I was pretty much numb I would say at that stage. I would get over with that within minutes and get back to my life.
And yeah, here we go to UAE. So things were not the way I expected. I got way more isolated. It was way worse. I got beatings I could never forget. And there was this one day he yelled at me, shouted at me, told me I was a slut. I- just because that the building security guard in which the apartment was. He came to help us when we came back from doing our groceries and he didn't like it and he came inside the apartment. He started beating me and hitting me. And then he decided, now I want to call your parents and tell them how awful you are. So he calls my mum and my mum is like, out of blue that he's calling and yelling and shouting and telling her that your daughter is a slut and all that kind of stuff. And like, she does not know how to react. And my dad is luckily, at that time with her, and he takes the phone and he listens to all his conversation, and he says to him, look, you're really angry at this stage, and you're not making sense to yourself or me.
Why don't you put your phone down? Calm down. And we will talk tomorrow about this thing. And so he goes to work next day. Now, one of the very interesting facts at this stage is that. So I'm four years into this marriage, and I have never told it to my parents that he was hitting me. And I think that is one of the biggest mistakes we do.
We think that we need to keep it all under covers, and we don't need to say it out. It needs to be said. You need to find one person you need to talk to. It could be a friend. It could be someone, you need to talk to someone. So my dad calls me in the morning. The only thing he says to me, don't you dare lie to me today.
And I started crying. I told him that he was hitting me. He was assassinating my character quite a lot. He isolated me. He was not letting me talk to anyone. He was controlling me financially and I was struggling with my mental health. He figured that out by himself. So in the evening, my dad calls back and he talks to him.
So now my dad has the story - the actual story. And my dad asked him, so did you push her out of the house? - The Dunedin incident when he pushed me out of the house - and he said no. And, my dad said, I have had a chat with her. And she said, you did. So he turned around and I'm sitting next to him.
And he said, when did I do that? And I tried to keep my voice really, really low. And I said, when you divorced me for the first time. My dad heard that. He hangs up the call. He needed the time to process cos it's a huge, huge thing in Muslim culture. And he hanged up, five minutes pass and he called back.
He didn't say a single word to him. He just said, can I talk to Anum? And he passes on the phone to me. So my dad says to me, you are going to say yes or no, nothing else. Now, did he divorce you? And I'm like thinking, oh God, what do I say? What do I say? And I said, yes.
And, that was it. That was it for my father. And he said to me and give the phone back to him, and I give him the phone. And he said to my ex-husband that you don't want my daughter? Perfectly fine with me. She's not a burden for me. I'll take her, be more than happy to take her and the kids. I don't need you to look after.
And that was not the thing he was expecting. He thought, who is going to come to Dubai to pick us up? and all that kind of stuff. But fortunately, one of my uncles, he's a German national and he was in Pakistan at that time, so he got a ticket right away and he was, within hours he was there with us.
So I was back in Pakistan for a couple of months. My family was making it very clear that it is not going to work, but some of our mutual friends, mine and my ex-husband, mutual friends, they pitched in, they talk to him, they talk to me and they convinced us both we need to give it another go. And the biggest mistake I made when I was talking to those friends was I did not tell them the whole story, the extent of what he was doing.
So I gave them a picture. Yeah, he slapped me. Or he did say this or that and all that kind of stuff, but I was not giving the full picture to them, so they thought maybe they had another chance. So they talked to him, they talked to me, he came to Pakistan to get us. And, I still remember my dad's words that day.
He made me sit down and he said to me, if you go back today, he's going to make it way worse for you. Men like these never change. He's going to isolate you from everyone cause we know it now. We will be among those who won't get a chance to talk to you anymore.
Well, I did not agree to my dad at that time. I thought I knew it all. I went back, and the next three years I spent in UAE with him. I just can't explain the extent of beatings I got. Just putting in perspective, there was one where he pushed me so hard I fell on the corner of the bed and the bed broke.
And we are not talking any random furniture. We're talking solid furniture over here. And my back hit that corner of the bed. I ruptured my back muscles, I couldn't sit, I couldn't stand, I couldn't lay down. I was in excruciating pain for days. But he didn't took me to hospital because I had a black eye as well. On the third day, when I was just useless to him, I wasn't able to even cook or clean or anything.
He decided to take me to the hospital only if I covered my face like the full burqa where your eyes are not even visible. And then he took me to the hospital. So that was how it was over there. You talk to people, I have lots of friends who have lived in Dubai and all, and they just talk about these fun activities they were doing and all that.
I think about that place I just don't ever want to go over there. So the interesting part about Dubai is that he had a very open extramarital affair. And he would admit it in front of me that, yes, I have got that affair and you are responsible for it because you tried to leave me. And he's talking to that woman, and they're having these long chats and text messages and all that going on.
And I'm literally at that stage where I'm blaming myself. You did it to yourself Anum. You made him do that. That is a good person. You are the problem. I was at that stage. I think for those three years, those were the most hard years of my life. Fortunately for me, he decides to come back to New Zealand now and he gets a job in Wellington and we move to Wellington.
Now I'm thinking, oh my God, maybe this is the chance where he will change [laughs]. And we are in New Zealand and I meet this wonderful group of Pakistani ladies and we started talking and I made friends. And now I came home and I told him, look, I've got friends and all that, and we should invite them because this is how you build relationships within a community.
So he was quite reluctant initially. And there were reasons for his reluctance, I know. Now we are living in a beautiful house, like everything is nice and pretty, but there is a security camera in the middle of the living room, and that's an external security camera that records everything, and you can hear through it. So obviously if someone came to our house, they would have noticed that.
And people did notice that and people did ask him questions.
Mick: And why did he have it?
Anum: oh, just to monitor me, what was I doing at home?
Mick: So in the middle of his day at work, he might just. See what you're up to. That level of control.
Anum: Yeah. So here I'm making friends and I'm inviting people to my home, and things were going well, and I found out I was pregnant again.
Five months on, the baby was not well, the baby had Anencephaly. So it was recommended that we do not carry on with the pregnancy. I was devastated, but because of some complications and things it was again recommended that I deliver the baby normally. So we are at the hospital around nine, and around ten-ish, the midwife clearly told him that he needed to get the kids out of the room now.
He took the kids and he said, okay, I'll take them and get them changed and drop them to your friend's place and then I'll come back. And I said, okay, fine. He leave at ten and he come back at 3.30.
Mick: Wow.
Anum: I went through that whole ordeal myself. I think he was back at the hospital and within five minutes I delivered the baby.
Mick: And this is stillborn?
Anum: Yes. And I am devastated. When you go through something like this, you expect your partner to be there with you for the whole thing. So I had my- one of my very good friends, let's call her my guardian angel now, because that was what she was for me. So, we were sitting at a friend's place having some tea, chatting and all that kind of stuff, and she was seeing me deteriorating after the loss. And she asked me, did you talk to your mum? I just said to her, I don't talk to my mum.
But because she has seen someone very close to her going through this, she picked it up really quickly. She didn't ask me any other questions. She didn't touch that topic in front of everyone. But later on, whenever she found some time, she would talk to me about it and I started slowly opening up to her.
I started telling her what he was doing, what I was going through. She started pretty much counselling me initially, because I was not ready. I was literally not ready. I was scared about things he told me would happen if I tried to get away from him. Like he will make sure that I am declared mad or not fit.
He said to me that because my residency was on his basis, I'll be thrown out of the country. And that was a time when I did not know that New Zealand has laws that protect me. He used to threaten me that even if I tried something like that, he will take the kids away from me. And I am really, really scared.
And all my guardian angel or my friend, she used to tell me was, if you can't do anything for yourself while being in New Zealand, you can't do anything for yourself anywhere else in the world. When there is a person in your life who's continuously telling you to get help, get help, get help. No matter if you're not getting that help, there is some part of your brain, some part of your subconscious which is registering all that. So that was that person for me.
So fast forward a few months and my brother got engaged back in Pakistan and he said to me, how dare your parents get your brother engaged without consulting me first? And I'm like [laughing] I'm trying to make sense of things. And so that was a horrific beating. My kids were yelling and crying. Like he had beaten me in front of them before as well, but that was the one where it was very open, he did not bother they were around or anything, and they were crying so loud.
So one of our neighbours, they thought that maybe someone was hitting the kids. They contacted Oranga Tamariki. Now in the background Oranga Tamariki is setting up this whole inquiry, which we don't know about yet.
Now, one day I hear a knock at the door. I open the door and they said to me, we are from Oranga Tamariki and we would like to talk to you. So they looked around and they explained to me what the complaint was and everything, and they interviewed me. And like, after conducting the interview, the last question that lady asked me was, are you okay?
I'm like, yeah, perfectly fine. Is there anything going on between you and your husband that we need to be worried about? Because the kind of complaint we got, it definitely tells us there is something wrong. And I went on and on how nice my husband was, how good he was as a father. And I went on and on for that.
And they figured out that she is not going to say anything. So they went away. Now I called him at his work. I told him that they came. I told him they asked me these questions, and I told him that I have made sure that do not think that he's doing anything wrong. Well, a few more days went by and he started this conversation again about my brother's wedding, and I said, look, I don't know what you want.
If you want me to go, I'll go. If you don't want me to go, I won't go. If you want me to never talk to them. I'll never talk to them. Just let me know what you want me to do. He didn't like my answer. He slapped me so hard I had a bruise from my ear to my jaw.
And I said to him, if you touch me again, I'm going to call the Police. He was not expecting that. He thought, how dare she? I have trained her for eight years not to say a word. How did she say that to me? He slapped me again. After slapping, he said to me. Go and get a phone and call the Police.
So, he thought that I'm not even capable of doing that. And I said to him, I might not be able to get to the phone, but I'll scream so loud that someone is going to come. Someone is going to call the police. And he obviously he understood that because someone has already contacted Oranga Tamariki because of this whole situation.
He put his hand on my mouth, dragged me from the kitchen to the living room, threw me on the couch, put his other hand on my neck and he tried to choke me. That was the moment I think I realised that I was nothing to this man. He will discard me like anything. And what? All those things that I built up in my head that, oh, he still loves me, he's still a great father and all that. came crashing down that time, that that moment. I was able to push his hand away from my mouth and I screamed. When I screamed, he got really concerned that- cause he thought that it might get ugly. So he got up, looked at me, and he thought that he had teached me enough lesson for the day.
He dressed up, went to work as if nothing has happened. I got up, gathered all my strength. I picked up the phone and I called my friend, my guardian angel, and I said to her…I was barely talking. I was crying so much and I told her what happened and she said to me, I'll quote her words, “darling, if you can't do it for yourself, no one else can do anything for you.”
I hanged up that call and I call it's not okay helpline.
Mick (VO): I know this is an abrupt place to interrupt Anum’s story, but it's worth me saying that the helpline that Anum is referring to is now called Are You OK, and can be found at areyouok.org.nz. We've put a link to the site and the phone number in the show notes. Let's go back to Anum now.
Anum: …Cause I thought that was the safest option. Like that is not police. Oh, that is not Women's Refuge. That is not a social worker. They’ll listen to me and tell me what I need do. And the lady on the other end, the more I speak, the more concerned she gets. So, she starts asking me questions.
And it came to a point where she had New Zealand Police on the call, Women’s Refuge on another call to make sure that I am well covered because of the level of details I'm saying to her. And all they are saying to me is we do not know that if she comes back home tonight, you are going to be alive tomorrow. So you need to get out of there right now.
My responses were very funny. I was telling them you are all going mad. I am not going anywhere. I don't have any money, I don't have a house, I don't have a job. I don't have food to feed my kids. Where am I going to go? [laughing] So they spent around two hours, literally two hours, trying to convince me that I need to get out of that house. And I still refused.
In the end, what they said to me was that we have got all this call recorded, so we are going to make sure that you are fully covered. If he comes back home and says or does anything, tell him that you have called us so he knows that someone know it and we are going to contact you tomorrow, again, similar time and see how you're feeling and we go from there.
And I said, okay, fine. I hanged up the phone, did all my wonderful duties, cooked him a meal, did the laundry and all that kind of stuff, brought the kids back from school. The day went on, he came back home and I remember like I was having a really bad migraine because of crying all day.
And he starts talking about me again. How awful I was. And because of what I did in the morning, how bad his day at work has been. And that is the point of my life where I am just done with everything. I didn't had any will to do anything else or to fight for anything anymore. And I said to him, that is fine. You don't want me, I’ll leave, that's what you want. That is fine with me. And I said to him, I have talked to a helpline and I'll leave tomorrow.
He thought I was bluffing. He could not believe that I called someone. He made fun of me. He was sarcastic, literally sarcastic, laughing at me and asking me. So, did they came home to talk to you? Oh, did they call New Zealand police to come and help you? And these were his words.
So during this whole thing is after a certain time, I became quite suicidal. But I was afraid of what my kids will see. I think that was the only thing keeping me alive at that time. Next day I got up, I got kids ready for school. I dropped them at school. My friend was waiting over there for me. She made me sit down. She had a good chat with me and told me that this is my chance to get out of all of this.
I went back home. He was already gone for work. I called the number they gave me, the day before, and I told them, look, I'm ready to leave. They talked about a few things and they said, we need an official statement from you.
They took me to Women's Refuge, I recorded my official statement. I think it took me 2.5 hours to record it all. Then the, the lady at Women's Refuge, she had a chat with my friend, and they told her, I'm not going back to my home, so they have to take me to their house if it was safe, and they were perfectly fine with that. So they took me to their house. She called my parents. I'm talking to my parents after so many years, and I asked my mum, you won't be mad at me if he get arrested? And she said, no, I won't be mad at you.
So the, Women's Refuge arranged a room. They got me, they got the kids from the school, they made sure school know what was going on. They moved us to a safe home. So it's like around three, four ish in the afternoon, and he get back home. Doesn't find me. The house is a mess. I haven't cooked anything. So he calls me again and again and I'm not attending the call. So the social worker who was with me during that process, they were they are very well trained and they were very much aware that I could just break up any moment and I can pick up that call.
So they made sure they switched off the location. They asked me to switch off my phone for a while and all that kind of stuff. I am devastated what I've done. Oh my God, I have ruined my life. I have left my home, I don't have a job, I don't have money, I don't have anything. So the next few months are all about courts and, how we navigated the system, I got legal aid to get a lawyer. Things are nasty.
I say one thing. He says that no, she is the perpetrator. She was beating me. Oh my God, I'm trying to figure things out. Like, how did he thought that someone would believe the kind of things he was saying? That I was the one beating him. I was the one controlling the finances and all that, and everything was under his name.
So it got really, really nasty. People do say that when you get out of relationships, it's over. It's not over. It goes on for a while, and especially if you have got kids with that person, it goes on pretty much forever. The only thing is that you deal with it on your own terms then. So I went through the legal system for around two years, going to courts and getting through things.
But you know how it is. You need proof to convict someone. And when a person is in such an abusive relationship, they are so busy surviving they don't have time to get proofs. I didn't had time to get proofs when he was beating me. I wasn't taking pictures of myself, so obviously I didn’t had any proof and it was all a he said she said kind of situation.
So after two years, my lawyer, a couple of friends, my parents, they all made me sit down and they said, look, it's not going to go anywhere. The best we could get is he could get reprimanded. And that's exactly what we got. He was told to attend a couple of courses against violence and things like that, but he got out of it.
When it came to property, cos we had a house and all that kind of stuff, the way things were unfolding, how horrible it was to go through the legal system, how difficult it becomes at times, how he makes sure that he controls me through my kids. It came to a point where I just signed off everything to him. I did not take a single penny from that man. Because at that time someone said to me, your mental health is way more important than this money now.
Mick: You just needed to be free of it.
Anum: Yes, exactly. I left that house within six months. I got a job, a really good one, and I'm still with them and I love what I do. I have got a house. Though it's a rental, but it is my home. The, it's a home where we are allowed to make mistakes and we are not judged on those.
Mick: And what's life like for you now, Anum?
Anum: Life is lovely. He doesn't go away because my kids still see him. He's still their dad. They need to see him. They need to make their decision themself when they want to stop it. I cannot dictate that. And I had that understanding after five years of therapy. I went through therapy for five years and my kids went to therapy for a year each. We were that devastated. That was the kind of trauma we went through.
We've got a nice life of our own where no one judges us, where no one belittle us, where no one tells us that we are ugly or anything. We are happy. I volunteer for a lot of different things. I am a regional rep for a Muslim Women council in New Zealand, and one of the things that I have been working on for a while now is educating the ethnic communities around family violence, because unfortunately, this is a topic we brush under the rug. We don't want to talk about it.
We are approaching people in different positions within the Muslim community to make certain things possible, so women are not disadvantaged like this. Unfortunately, it's still happening and it's happening a lot. But if I come across anyone who's in that situation, I always tell them, look, it's a very dark tunnel you have to go through, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
It might flicker once in a while, and when you have got kids, there are times when they love to control you through those kids. But kids will grow up. Like I normally tell people that we have good days, bad days, and worst days. Good days are the days we live for. Bad days like they are like normal kind of bad days that every person has. And the worst days are when something from the past comes back. It's a blast from the past and that just takes you back. And those days, that's the time when we stick on to our support system, the support system we build. There are friends, there are therapists around you. There are free, a lot of free helplines. You don't feel like talking to anyone who knows you - just call one of those free helplines, they’ll listen to you without judging you.
Mick: Um, if someone's listening to this conversation and they’re relating to your story and they are actually in an abusive relationship, what would you like to say to them?
Anum: One of the things that I tell to anyone who is in such situation is that this is not the end of the world. They might make it seem like that this is the end of the world for us, but it is not. There is a way forward. All you need is one right person in your corner. You need- just need to find that right person. You just need to say to someone, even if you can't find a friend, say- call any helpline and talk to them. They won't take any action until and unless you agree to that. So that fear that we have that, oh my God, if I call that helpline, they are going to get the police involved and this person involved and that person involved, no they don't. they listen to you.
And I’m I think a prime example. I just refused to go and they didn't do anything until I said so. Though in the background they are doing things and they are making sure that we are safe. And once you take the first step, you automatically start finding your way. It will be long, it will be hard, you will cry, you'll- you'll curse yourself for choosing and making that decision. But it is worth it.
If I talk about myself, there are days when I literally curse myself for what I've done. But it's not that I want to be with him and that's why I'm cursing myself. I curse myself because why did I waste eight years of my life for that person? I could have gone- got out of that door the first day he slapped me.
That should have been my decision at that time. But you can't change what has happened, so you just need to look forward. There is always a light at the end of the tunnel. Just keep going. Just don't lose hope. You'll have someone in your life worth living. I had my kids. I looked at them every time and that was my reason for getting up, going to work. That was my reason for getting through the worst depression I had.
So just find that one person. Don't make erratic decisions cause the other person is doing that for you. Just think it through. Find someone. Talk to someone. Talking is the key over here. And you will find a way out.
Mick: What if someone keeps thinking over and over and over that their partner will improve? That it's just a season, even though it's been going on for a long time. What would you say to that person?
Anum: So there's a cycle of abuse and love bombing. Abuse and love bombing. Like, that continuously goes on. So don't get your hopes up that men like these can change. And if you are listening to this and you are thinking about this, unfortunately I think you have already given that person way too many chances by now. One chance is all anyone needs who wants to improve, and if someone just needs a chance every week, then that's very clear. They don't want to improve and men like these never-. Sorry, I keep saying men.
Anyone who is in this kind of behaviour, they never improves. They need to understand that there is a problem with their behaviour. So if they are not accepting it, there is no chance and this will ever improve. They are going to keep doing that to you. So love yourself enough and get out of that.
Mick: Thank you so much, Anum, for sharing your story with me. I can't imagine the strength it took to be that vulnerable and to share such a painful part of your life. So thank you from me, and thank you from the people who will hear this.
Anum: Thank you for giving this opportunity, Mick, but I think over the years what I've realised is when we go through something, obviously there is a lot of trauma and we keep it to ourself. That is our trauma. We don't want to share it with anyone. We hold it very close to our hearts. But if we are going to keep doing that, how are we going to change this? I think if one person out there listens to this and thinks, I've got a way out. If we have changed one heart, there is even a flicker of light in someone's heart today that maybe there is a life outside what they are living.
If someone thought today that their life was not worth living and because of listening to this, they think, no, they can live, they can get out of it. Then we have achieved everything we want.
Mick (VO): Ngā mihi nui, Anum, for sharing such an incredibly tough story. I really admire your willingness to reopen a dark chapter of your life in order to speak hope to others who might be experiencing something similar. If this episode has brought anything out for you and you want some support, you can go to areyouok.org.nz or call the 24/7 Are You OK Helpline on 0800 456 450 to speak anonymously to a safe person. That's 0800 456 450.
Contact details for Women's Refuge and information for people supporting someone experiencing family violence are in the show notes for this episode.
And I just want to mention that Anum's story is her own unique experience. Violence impacts people in many different ways, and the path to getting support and finding healing can be different for everyone too. Despite it being a hard listen in parts, I do hope you feel inspired and empowered by Anum's strength and bravery. If you found this useful, do have a listen to one of the other episodes in this Insider's Guide series, and I'll see you there. Ka kite anō.
PG
Description
Experiencing family violence or partner violence can leave us feeling isolated and alone. It can mess with our minds and even make us feel crazy. We often blame ourselves for what's happening, and it can make us feel like there's nowhere to turn. Throughout this series, you'll hear firsthand stories of people who have experienced family violence. And the reason these courageous people are sharing these stories is because they want people who are experiencing family violence to know that they are not alone, that they are not crazy, that it's not their fault, and that helpful support is available.Anum spent eight years married to a man who severely abused her physically, emotionally and psychologically. She courageously shares how her ex-husband used violence, control and fear to keep her silent and turn her into a shadow of her former self. Anum also speaks powerfully about how connecting with a community gave her the courage to take the slow steps out of her volatile marriage.
** Content Warning: This episode contains descriptions of physical and emotional abuse and references to suicide and infant loss.
If you would like support, you can click 'get help now' in the bottom right hand corner of the screen to start a webchat with the Are You OK helpline, or call the helpline on 0800 456 450 to speak anonymously to a safe person
To contact Women’s Refuge, go to womensrefuge.org.nz or call 0800 456 450.
Up Next
9 May 2025
The Insider’s Guide: family violence in takatāpui and rainbow communities
Experiencing family violence or partner violence can leave us feeling isolated and alone. It can mess with our minds and even make us feel crazy. We often blame ourselves for what's happening, and it can make us feel like there's nowhere to turn. Throughout this series, you'll hear firsthand stories of people who have experienced family violence. And the reason these courageous people are sharing these stories is because they want people who are experiencing family violence to know that they are not alone, that they are not crazy, that it's not their fault, and that helpful support is available.
Sandra and Kahukura have both endured violence in intimate relationships. Sandra, a bisexual woman, was the victim of physical, psychological and emotional abuse at the hands of a female partner. Kahukura is takatāpui non-binary trans and suffered severe abuse from two partners. They both talk candidly about the emotional scars left by the abuse and the steps they took to rebuild their lives. They also explore the unique ways family violence shows up in takatāpui and rainbow communities.
Sandra has since founded an organisation called Hohou Te Rongo Kahukura, dedicated to building violence-free Takatāpui and Rainbow communities in Aotearoa.
** Content warning: This episode contains descriptions of or discussion about sexual abuse, attempted homicide, physical abuse, suicide and some strong language.
To connect with Hohou Te Rongo Kahukura, visit https://kahukura.co.nz/.
If you would like support, you can click 'get help now' in the bottom right hand corner of the screen to start a webchat with the Are You OK helpline, or call the helpline on 0800 456 450 to speak anonymously to a safe person.
Sandra and Kahukura have both endured violence in intimate relationships. Sandra, a bisexual woman, was the victim of physical, psychological and emotional abuse at the hands of a female partner. Kahukura is takatāpui non-binary trans and suffered severe abuse from two partners. They both talk candidly about the emotional scars left by the abuse and the steps they took to rebuild their lives. They also explore the unique ways family violence shows up in takatāpui and rainbow communities.
Sandra has since founded an organisation called Hohou Te Rongo Kahukura, dedicated to building violence-free Takatāpui and Rainbow communities in Aotearoa.
** Content warning: This episode contains descriptions of or discussion about sexual abuse, attempted homicide, physical abuse, suicide and some strong language.
To connect with Hohou Te Rongo Kahukura, visit https://kahukura.co.nz/.
If you would like support, you can click 'get help now' in the bottom right hand corner of the screen to start a webchat with the Are You OK helpline, or call the helpline on 0800 456 450 to speak anonymously to a safe person.
Details & Info
PG
Parental Guidance Recommended for Younger Viewers.